Simone Till is a senior studying social work at the University of South Florida who applies empathy and her lived expertise with her disability to advocate for others and accessibility policy.
In this episode, Chris and Simone discuss the bachelor of social work at USF and Simone’s interdisciplinary experience at the university and in her internship with the City of Tampa.
Learn more about the BSW offered at the University of South Florida here.
Learn more about the School of Social Work at the University of South Florida here.
Chris: Hi my name is Chris Groeber and I'm an associate in research in the University of South Florida's College of Behavioral and Community Sciences School of Social work. Welcome to the Remark-a-Bull podcast.
[Instrumental music]
Chris: Hello listeners. I am so glad to be back sharing yet another story with you about somebody who is “remarka-bull.” This time our story comes from one of our BSW students in her final semester. She's getting ready to graduate this next semester and she has got quite the story about who she is and how she got here and what's motivated her to be here. So, folks, I want you to meet Simone Till. Simone, tell was a little bit about who you are and how you got to this point.
Simone Till: Yeah, thank you for introducing me, I'm Simone Till. I am in the social work program and I also had, fun fact, a policy minor and that helped me understand how to bridge the gap between policy-making and social work, and I’ll explain that more a little bit later, but really I would love to talk about how to use the tool of storytelling in advocacy because that's what really I’m all about and I think social work is the perfect space to do that.
Chris: Absolutely. So, what is your story then? Why is storytelling important to you?
Simone Till: It's important to me because we, as human beings, we bond through stories and, although you can have all the data in the world, people might still not connect until you tell that story behind the data. So for me, everything I do is driven by my own personal story which is basically the challenges and the hardships I face as someone that has a disability and grew up in poverty and that going through all those challenges made me really appreciate those who've helped me and that's what really encouraged me to give more and I think that's what a lot of other people feel in social work where they might've had a social worker in their lives, like me. The social worker that helped me, you know, be placed with another family because of circumstances that happened, it's probably just another day for her as a medical social worker, but for me, she completely changed my life. You know I probably would not be here if it weren't for that social worker, so that encouraged me to follow in her footsteps.
Chris: So, share with the folks listening a little bit about your disability and kind of what it was like growing up that way.
Simone: So, I love to start essays, personal essays, especially for colleges, saying that like I am a living irony. My name Simone, which means the one who hears, and the reason why it's ironic is because I actually have severe hearing loss. The actual official diagnosis is very long, its bilateral congenital severe to moderate sensorineural hearing loss.
Chris: Wow. (Laughs)
Simone: Which is a fancy term (laughs) it's like no one understands that. Basically, it's a fancy term for, you know, I have severe to moderate permanent damage hearing loss in both ears, and I wasn't diagnosed until I was four. If you're in the social work program, you go over the developmental stages a lot and you would know that from age zero to five are the most critical learning and development stage of your life, and yeah, let's just say there was a lot of catching up for me to do and a lot of the barriers were not only internal, but I would argue most of it was external.
Chris: Okay, say more about that.
Simone: It wasn't just ... yeah, so the issue when you're young and you're not able to communicate effectively, my dad used to call me Jabba the Hutt because I sounded like Jabba the Hutt, if you know Star Wars. Yeah, so I wasn't able to communicate clearly, and I went through years of speech therapy to even get to this point and that's just because the way that you ... when you're hearing things, you copy it verbally.
Chris: Right, right.
Simone: Yeah, so years of speech therapy and the issue was that the accommodations I had was not working for me, but I couldn't communicate that. The teacher would just be like, “oh she's a frustrated child,” but I couldn't communicate my frustration. Luckily for me, even though I had a lot of language loss, you know I had a lot of catching up to do, I was at the age where mobile devices were not really a thing yet for children, so my entertainment was books. I literally read so many books and I think that really helped me understand and connect the sounds.
Chris: Yeah, yeah.
Simone: Because reading is a visual piece to listening, so I think that's what helped me. But in terms of external barriers, it wasn't just me with not getting the accommodation I need, but also my older sister. She has cerebral palsy, and it's interesting because, at first, my disability was very visible, literally could not communicate that well, we call it a deaf accent -- I have this super thick deaf accent and my sister had a very visible disability, by the way that she walked, she would drool. However, the way we were treated was much differently. I have a running joke because I was later on in high school, I was able to be in the International Baccalaureate program, IB program, and a lot of those kids were gifted children and I would tell them like, “oh I was not one of the gifted children, I was one of the special children.” (Laughs)
Chris: Exceptional Simone, exceptional.
Simone: But no, I mean, honestly, I actually was almost going to be held back for another year. It wasn't until, I think the Family Center on Deafness, a local nonprofit here, they tested me with iPads, and they were able to show, even though I couldn't communicate that well, they were able to show that I am very smart, I just couldn't communicate.
Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Simone: Yeah, but there's just a lot of stuff like that, and for my sister, she was bullied so badly, and this was in high school, like a nice high school in Tampa, I'm not going to a name the high school, but, uhm, she had to drop out.
Chris: Wow.
Simone: That's how bad it was for her. People would throw textbooks at her; I even would have to defend her because I was in middle school at the time and people would see her and make fun of her and they didn't know that we were related because I was one of the only ones that did not have red hair, so they didn't realize that I was related and it really just crushed me to see. Really, I think the biggest difference was our personality, unfortunately. I'm very extroverted, I'm very, like, I don't know what it is, but I always was my number one defender, like no matter when someone told me I'm dumb or whatever I'd be like, “no I'm not.”
Chris: Yeah, you don’t wait for somebody else, right?
Simone: One of the most common phrases I would say when I was younger was, like, "I know."
Chris: And you did know, that was the crazy thing; you were right, you knew.
Simone: So, my sister was unfortunately very introverted, and I was really her only friend growing up and so as later on growing up my disability became more invisible, I started getting treated differently. Instead of being that special child they'd be like, “oh what's wrong with you?” “You're ignoring me; why didn't you hear me?” and I would then have to explain about my disability and so I would have experiences where people ran into me like literally on their bike because they were ringing their bell and they're like, “why didn't you move out the way?” and I’d be like, “I didn't hear you, you know you're ringing your bell behind me.” So, there's been a lot of awkward situations where people, even though they know about my disability, they kind of forget about it, and yeah, those are moments where I'm always about disability pride being prideful of who you are. For me, I've come to terms with it being as part of who I am and, you know, I'm never scared to ask questions. Like I'm always willing to answer questions about my disability. I know everyone's not like that. I know that everyone has their own different experiences and so really what I'm there to do is to help use the experiences I have with the barriers of people assuming things about me, people thinking ... underestimating me, believing I won't make it, into a story where it’s like, “wow, look, she’s advocating for others,” and really one of my main things is advocacy and accessibility, accommodation, and especially awareness in education and that's something that I'm working on right now is using that story and that experience at USF.
Chris: So, tell me a little bit, because I'm hearing this and I've worked with young people for a long, long time and I'm always fascinated by this whole concept of resilience, and so you and your sister raised very similar, a very similar home, right? So, to what do you attribute your resilience in your story because it seems exceedingly resilient to me? So, talk a little bit about for me, just how did you get so resilient? What do you think were the things that happened that made you resilient, or are you just that way?
Simone: Honestly, I've always been examining the same question, too, and I, honestly ... like it's literally just a personality trait for me. I think even when my self-esteem is low, I'm always able to comfort myself and say that doesn't define who I am.
Chris: How did you get that message though? How did you internalize that message to embrace who you were? I mean, I know that's a huge existential question right, but ...
Simone: It really is. I'm not really sure, but I think part of it is because, and I'm not going to get super detailed with this, but I think part of it was I was kind of the scapegoat in my family and I was ... you know, I was the more successful child and so I think they kind of used that against me. I think I always had to constantly defend myself, even in my home. As my sister, she was often pitied by others and therefore was never ... no one would ... like students would bully her, but at home they would comfort her and you know take care of her, and I, on the other hand, was always, let's just say, like criticized.
Chris: You know, that's very interesting, because I've been doing a lot of reading on trauma lately and in a traumatic narrative, right, in your family dynamic, your family trauma narrative, the people that were able to speak out for themselves, the people that were able to articulate, the people that says, “you know what this isn't right, this isn't the way it should be,” and would voice that, are the scapegoats. So, if you believe this or not, if you read stuff, the healthier you are in that sense, the healthier your esteem is the more likely you are to be targeted and scapegoated, so that actually fits really with the trauma narrative that a lot of families find themselves in. So, as abnormal as it felt to you in a kind of trauma narrative situation, what I'm reading, is very typical.
Simone: That's the beautiful thing about social work. Literally, in my first day in social work class, I still remember this, when my professor, as an ice breaker asked all of us why we were interested in social work and basically the question just became, “what trauma do you have?” and you do a lot of trauma bonding, but it's really good because in the social work program, you really cannot escape your own trauma, you really have to face it.
Chris: You do.
Simone: And, so, you have to embrace it. What's great though, is that your classmates are not judgmental. Actually, a lot of them probably have very similar experiences and so the cool thing is that we're able to use research and social work theories to back up the experiences that we have and can advocate for others and that's why I love social work so much.
Chris: You know, I keep, and I think I've said this in every one of these podcasts, it's the whole concept of using learning as a coping mechanism, because if you can learn about it, you can name it, you can tame it, right? I know that sounds trite, but if you can put a label on it then that means there's a body of knowledge around it and I can learn something about it that will help me deal with it. And I think you're right ... my wife and I were having this discussion the other night about social work and why people become social workers and it's so funny I've had some experiences in the last few months that, for the first time in 56 years I can tell you why I became a social worker. I mean, I would've given a great answer, but I can tell you, because of my trauma and everything, I didn't realize because I just went on and I just assumed this is what people do is that they just go on and so I think you're so right about the power of your own experience propelling you forward or not. Right?
Simone: Yes and, basically, you know some people let their trauma take them down and I kind of use trauma as ... well, first of all, I see it as the reason why I'm so passionate, and honestly, I could not imagine a different childhood. You know I feel like I’d be a completely different person. Obviously, I would be a more healed person, but I probably would not be as empathetic to others just because the experience that I had really makes me, like it really -- I think it's the emotions, too. I'm very, I embrace my emotion and I'm not afraid to show it; sometimes I'm a little too, I guess, readable. But I could tell people, I'm more of a macro social worker, micro is much harder for me and, as I tell people, you start crying, I’m going to start crying so I'm trying to get better at not –
Chris: Reflecting people's behavior back to them.
Simone: Yes. But I think it's also important because, at the end of the day, I can really reflect on my experiences to see how much I've grown since then.
Chris: Well, your story is truly remarkable and the ease at which you accept it and tell it. It's so funny that you would talk about your childhood and all of that, I just had that discussion this morning with somebody, I said, “you know if I were to do it over again, I wouldn't, because I wouldn't be where I am if I did it over again.” So, don't you find there's a really nice peace in being where you are and appreciating it?
Simone: Yeah, a hundred percent. I think because I feel like I had to do a lot by myself and I'm actually still trying to learn how to ask for help, but I’m able to be proud because this is the result of all my hard work, like I'm here and at USF about to graduate, with no debt.
Chris: Good for you! Not a lot of people can say that.
Simone: Yeah, and that's really because of my hard work and also, I will say I love being a student, I love learning. Like you said, learning really helps empower yourself and others and also school for me was always my safe space, you know? I love going to school, I love reading. Actually, that's one thing I've been hesitant about, it's like I don't want to go to work yet. I love being a student.
Chris: It's a whole different kind of school, the whole thing about the workplace. You learn, just in a different way. It’s kind of like you learn in the moment and, for somebody like you, I think you'll be really good at it just simply because it's about thinking through very quickly and acting so that you're not always reacting, you know. It's taking all those things you learned and saying, “go.” I think you'll be spectacular. So, talk a little about this BSW and what this experience has been like for you.
Simone: Yeah, so, I don’t know why ... a lot of people say there was a moment for them to decide to choose social work, but it was just very natural for me. I graduated high school, and I was like, “I'm going to do social work.” It's very rare, but I never changed my major. So, I was pre-social work the whole time, then did the social work major and I entered the program and, really, what's been fascinating is, especially this semester, I swear I feel like the professors can read my mind because I'm very involved in my community, so I have situations and then literally the next day in class we'd be talking about something that's related. I’m like, “what are the chances that I ...” maybe it’s about like advocacy or maybe its about a certain policy or whatever and I’m like, “this is literally what I just talked about yesterday,” it’s crazy.
Chris: I think for me that's the sign of a really good program that's so contemporary that it’s in the moment, right?
Simone: Oh, 100 percent and its great, too, because you can see that there's literature behind it and the things you're doing is, like, you're on the right path and also, I've been able to connect the social work classes with my internships I've had. So, I haven't worked full-time yet but I've had several summer internships and the most recent one was the City of Tampa internship; I worked as an Americans with Disability Act coordinator intern, so that's where I helped the city facilitate the Title 2 of ADA, which is access to public services and access to buildings and so I'm able to use that experience from over the summer and apply that to USF, because one thing you might notice is, it's not the program it's just, it's USF campus itself, a lot of the buildings are not accessible. And so, you'd talk about this in classes, but to me, it's so important you become an active bystander and actually advocate. So, when we talk about access to buildings, I'm looking at the building we access every day and unfortunately right now ... apparently, they're working on it, but right now the doors are super heavy. Its impossible to open the doors, there are no automatic door openers and the reason why it's so important for me is accessibility benefits everyone. We all use the automatic buttons, we all use the elevators, you know we always appreciate alternative ways, captioning is very common. So, it's been amazing to see how I am able to apply what we're reading and, you know, the lectures in the classroom, to basically community projects that I'm working on. I'm able to share that in classes and other people also share, you know, what they've been working on and it's just been amazing to see how much we've grown. I swear, some of my classmates are like completely different people from first semester to second semester, so it's been amazing just watching everyone grow and seeing how they use those social work skills.
Chris: So, tell me, look in your crystal ball, where do you see yourself in three to five years? What's your ideal, if you were to paint a picture right now, what does it look like?
Simone: I would say I definitely want to go to grad school right after this, I want to finish, get a MSW, because one of the biggest benefits is that if you do BSW you can do an accelerated track and get an MSW within a year, which is amazing. I'm looking to somehow combine policy to it and the reason why I’m so passionate about policy is because even though it can be very frustrating and It takes a lot longer, you don’t see how you can make a difference right away, it’s a much slower process, I think, in general, social workers should be more involved with policymaking.
Chris: Absolutely, 100 percent.
Simone: Because we use evidence-based practice and I think the number one thing for me is inclusion because oftentimes people will advocate but not include the people at the table and it's so important that you’re empowering whatever population you're advocating for and including them at the table. I advocate for a lot of different populations I don't just focus on people with disabilities because we're all connected in some way or another, but I notice especially for people with disabilities, people just assume what we need and it's just so important that we're actively seeking out what do they need and I think me being very involved in the community, I'm able to use my networking skills and connect with others and really understand the gaps that we have and then advocate that to like a state legislature and something that I love to tell people is that these county commissioners, public officials, city council members, they're there to work for you, they're there for you.
Chris: They forget that sometimes but, yes, absolutely.
Simone: Yeah and one of the things I was working on over at the City of Tampa is I was actually able to get some of the city council members to come to social work school and talk about, you know, just really connect them and see, because often times we see their names on paper, but its just so cool to see they're willing to, not that they're willing to, they love to be involved with the community and really just trying to connect the social workers with the policymakers is one of my passions and recently I met, I don't remember her name, a school board member, she's a social worker, I know the state of Arizona, the governor is also a social worker and that makes me so happy because, since we all have to go through the same program essentially you know the same – it has to be all accredited, knowing that the education that they receive and the skills that they have learned, I know that they'll be amazing policymakers.
Chris: I love what you said about the importance of policy and its very interesting because I teach the policy class at the master’s level and you know, several years ago, three or four years ago, people were like, “policy, uhh, please don't make me,” like it was some sort of chore that's really hard. What’s happened, I think, is because policy been so in our face, politically, good, bad, and indifferent, and people are realizing the impact policy has on their own individual lives and I will tell you the past two semesters I've never had policy students as engaged as they have been in the past couple semesters because all of a sudden it clicked on why it mattered. I think – you've lived it so you know, but guess what, now people who haven’t had your experiences, its coming home to roost for them and impacting their day-to-day and so all of a sudden policy has become something that people are like, “oh, oh, no, lets talk about that, we need to discuss that, we need to debrief on that , we need to make a statement about that,” and I think-- as tragic as the circumstances have been that have brought us to this point, I'm so glad were finally having those kinds of discussions and beginning to value policy for what it actually is, right?
Simone: Yes, and also to answer your question, I – if I'm going to stay in Florida, it depends on scholarship honestly, it’s all about money, that's just the unfortunate reality of being a student, is, like, I'm going to go wherever is the cheapest, right, but if I stay in Florida id honestly love to work with Disability Rights Florida. Every state is required to have an agency that holds the state government accountable in term of ADA, also just defending the rights of people with disabilities within that state, so there has been a recent lawsuit between Disability Rights Florida and the current administration because they were not inviting ASL interpreters, which is required at conferences, especially when they have COVID – I remember the conferences around COVID – it’s in the books you need an ASL interpreter and so I love not just Disability Rights Florida, also love the Department of Justice, because not only the policy itself is important but implementing it.
Chris: Absolutely! Implementing it, implementing it well, not just basic. So much special ed policy is written for just very C level kinds of things and it’s going to be adequate, words like adequate – no, no, no! I don't want adequate for my kid, I want really excellent for my kid and so having people like you that, say, with your lived expertise, I wouldn't called it lived experience, its lived expertise, you really you really are somebody who knows what they're talking about when they're talking about these things because of your own experience and you saw how, and, guess what, you're also a student of policy and a social worker who sees how all these things align or they don't. So, what an incredible complete package as the social work code of ethics goes, we should put you on a poster. So, tell me in your final, kind of your final parting shots, what advice would you give to people that are considering this BSW or an MSW, you're kind of in that place now, what’s your advice for people that are shopping for a program?
Simone: My advice is to really get involved in the community because, even before the social work program, I did like over 200 hours with Kiwanis Club during high school and just those service hours I was involved at, I was at homeless shelters, did a lot of fundraising for different nonprofits, so like Feeding Tampa Bay, I was able to see how the community worked and how they served different populations. This was before I had the terminology for any of these things. It’s just me literally, “oh I’m going to get a couple hours today by making sandwiches,” I wasn't thinking in my head, “this is going to connect later on.” I was just a high school student. But the reason why I mention this is because during my time at USF, you know it did somewhat lead to a bit of a burn out, I was a little too ... I put too much on my plate, but I really did like how I was able to join so many different things, so I was a part of Bulls for Kids, a nonprofit for children getting services at Shriners Hospital. I was involved with IBuddy, International Buddies, I was able to see what are the gaps in services and resources for international students. I was involved with peer health education, so I was able to learn about public health and how to use research from public health to educate students on well-being within our campus, and also how to do programming, how to create materials, and I was able to use the City of Tampa job, where I got involved on the city level and see how city policies work and how to do programming on a city level. So, I'm able to use these experiences from all these different offices, nonprofits, and even the government, to understand really first hand, first of all how the community works, how they get access to services, but also understand what the gaps are and so I’m able to use that experience, and what you said, the expertise, to understand what I need to do as an effective social worker to help others. So my biggest advice is just, if you’re at USF go through BullsConnect, look at what events are going on, see where you can get involved, look at internships nearby, I know a lot of people do amazing internships at nearby centers and nonprofits, so yeah, I’d say that's my number one advice.
Chris: I can’t tell you, I mean I so agree with you about peoples stories, and I can’t tell you how just, and you and I have spent some time together, and I think about one of the benefits of sitting where I sit as an instructor and a professor in the school, being able to hear your story and hear your passion really makes me excited to keep doing what I'm doing because of people like you, so I want to say thank you for choosing USF thank you for doing all that you’re doing in the community. The fact is you could've gone anywhere, and you could've done it any place, but I feel very fortunate that you did it with us. The other thing I will say is you really are the exact ideal kind of advocate I would want if I were in any situation, so I want to thank you for that, too, Simone. I want to thank you for your time today and sharing where you've been and where you're headed. I think we should probably do season two of Simone Till in about three years to find out what sorts of organizational change you're making, so thank you for that I appreciate it.
Simone: Thank you for having me today and if we do a season two, I'm probably going to cringe at this episode. I always cringe. But, hey, that's part of life right if you're growing, you're going to cringe at your past self.
Chris: You have said absolutely nothing cringe-worthy, so if you cringe that's on you because you haven't said anything ... like you said, all I felt was unconditional positive regard for your journey so thanks for sharing that with us.
Simone: Thank you.